Replanning the Brooklyn Marine Terminal (BMT)

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Last update 5/25/25 - announcing 2 more BMT meetings!

The BMT Task Force vote has been postponed from mid April until June 18! We agree that the process has been rushed, and we are glad for another extension; however, the think the process needs, not more short-term extensions; we think the nature of the process has to completely change. We think the City ULURP process not the NYS GPP process should be used since the former has a set structure and timeline and would avoid the rushed “invent as we go along” process the EDC is using now where they are doing community engagement simultaneously with assessing the site’s condition and planning for its future. Look below for info about ULURP and GPP. The EDC’s “preferred plan” as of the May 8 Public Workshop 5 is here.

How this blogpost is organized

Recent important news or updates are next on this page, and then action items, then future meetings, and below that recordings of past meetings and media coverage. The backstory is below all that. We delete events once they have passed, but they will be memorialized if there are recordings.

Important/news updates

4/24/25  Council bills Int 860 & 861 passed. From the Instagram account of Councilmember Alexa Aviles: “Together, these bills will strengthen community involvement and transparency in the Economic Development Corporation's process.

  • Int 860 will require a report on how many local residents are hired through workforce development opportunities.

  • Int 861 will require EDC to disclose information related to Community Benefit Agreements, allowing our communities to understand whether these agreements are empty promises or are truly producing tangible benefits for impacted communities.”

We wish Intro 861 were in place years ago because the EDC did not fulfill promises they made to us, Red Hook, and the maritime industry about providing space for a fully-realized PortSide, a maritime center, a PortSide campus. After three years of promises from summer 2008 into 2011 when the EDC made us do what the called '“interim programs,” the EDC provided no space at all. We were stuck in the Red Hook Container Terminal for most of a decade. PortSide merits this space, and teh BMT process is the time to fix this historic error.

Action items

  • Go to #PortSideNeedsaHome, and see where it shows how to send emails of support and please send those emails to the BMT Task Force leadership ASAP before the June 18 vote. The Task Force must vote to get the EDC to fulfill past promises they made.

  • By June 1, submit comments to the EDC’s draft cruise traffic mitigation plan for both Manhattan and Brooklyn. As they say these “are being developed in consultation with the NYC Department of Transportation and the NYC Police Department.” This results from legislation written by Councilmembers Alexa Avilés and Erik Bottcher, and passed unanimously last year. It reflects years of Red Hook research, advocacy, and input via a 2023 working group led by Alexa to deal with Brooklyn Cruise Terminal traffic covered in a PortSide blogpost.

    1. EDC cruise terminal traffic mitigation draft plan

    2. The EDC is collecting input via this form

    3. For any questions: cruise@edc.nyc

  • Red Hook’s PS15 PTA now has a petition about BMT

  • Sign the petition asking that the BMT planning process slow down here. Why the rush? The property transfer can take years. “In the event approvals for the Transfers are not obtained before April 30, 2031, the City and Port Authority have agreed to use reasonable efforts to extend the Leases through 2123” from minutes of EDC Board of Directors meeting 5/16/24.

  • Email the Task Force and tell them to vote no here

  • Write a support letter here

  • Waterfront Alliance calling for BMT to stay in maritime industrial use sign-on letter

Upcoming official and community BMT events

  • Thursday, May 29, 7-8:30pm, on the Waterfront Museum barge, a screening of a 45 documentary by Jori Johnson inspired by the BMT process. Free but RVSP necessary here. This film was created by Jori Johnson, in collaboration with PortSide, as a Capstone project in NYU's Archives & Public History MA program. The screening is co-hosted by PortSide and the Waterfront Museum.

  • Maybe Monday, June 2? EDC Public Workshop 6, in-person and June 9? virtual. We are not sure of the dates, times and location on this yet…

  • Wednesday June 4, 6-7:30 p.m, at Borough Hall. The Brooklyn Borough President’s Office is hosting a conversation about the BMT with the EDC. Borough Hall is presenting the questions. Here is their description of how they researched the questions “we are asking Task Force and advisory group members for their top three questions surrounding the proposal. Our office will compile these questions and then select the most commonly raised questions and issues.” Attendees can also sumbit questions when you RSVP to the event. Register at www.bit.ly/BPBMT25. The event will be livestreamed at www.bit.ly/BMTWEBEX

  • Thursday, June 12, 1pm, Committee Room, City Hall, NYC Council Committee on Economic Development
    Oversight hearing about the Brooklyn Marine Terminal Redevelopment. The hearing will run as long as people are testifying. Look for updates on this Council webpage.

  • June 9-13, what the EDC calls:“Socialize the Plan, drop-in session of the final site plan; Direct stakeholder engagements.”

  • June 18, Task Force vote

Recent media overage, op-eds, and recordings of meetings and a rally

  • Monday, May 19, 6:30pm City Club BMT webinar 4 “Brooklyn Marine Terminal: Will the Community have a Say in the End?” recording

  • Tuesday, 5/13/25, the EDC Public Workshop #5, you can see much of that in this video; but note that parts are missing. The internet was cutting out during this livestream; and after download, and the glitchy parts were deleted.

  • 5/5/25 Regional Plan Association op-ed “A resilient, working port for Brooklyn” in The Daily News

  • May 2025 issue of the Red Hook Star Revue has several pieces about BMT

  • 4/22/25, editorial by Tom Fox, “We need working docks on Brooklyn’s Waterfront” in Daily News.

  • 4/16/25 a short talk and its presentation by our ED Carolina Salguero with a quick overview of some problems with the BMT planning process, and how improving the planning process and result would be to have a new NYC agency for maritime. The bridge between those two topics is a short summary of the maritime response to 9/11 and how that shows what can be accomplished with local maritime expertise in the lead.

  • 4/10/25 a retort to the 3/30 op-ed from Congressman Dan Goldman below “Build the Brooklyn port now, not luxury housing” by Congressman Jerry Nadler and former EDC SVP for Ports & Transportation Andrew Genn, Daily News

  • April 2025 issue of the Red Hook Star Revue, about 1/3 of the issue relates to BMT

  • 4/7/25 “Vote on Brooklyn Marine Terminal Vision Plan postponed” Brooklyn Eagle

  • 4/5/25 “Tensions rise at last public workshop before vote on BMT development,” Brooklyn Eagle

  • 4/4/25 “City postpones vote...” Crain’s

  • 4/4/25 Brooklyn Community Board 7 letter to EDC & Task Force expressing concerns

  • 4/4/25 “Delusional lefties could sabotage Marine Terminal’s major facelift” NY Post Editorial Board

  • 4/3/25 BMT Rally This rally seemed to trigger some of the editorials above and several delays of the Task Force vote.

  • 4/2/25 Mike Stamatis and Frank Agosta op-ed “NYC should rebuild the working waterfronts that built New York” am NY

  • 3/30/25 Congressman Dan Goldman op-ed “Brooklyn Marine Terminal reborn: After years of decay, it’s time for a revived port and housing” Daily News

  • 3/26/25 The EDC puts out a press release about $18MM in investments for the containerport in BMT. This leads to several media articles that paraphrased the press release and the two op eds above. Many in the community see the timing of this news, just 2 weeks before the Task Force was to vote, as a way to persuade some Task Force members. There is more community push back, and the EDC postpones the Task Force vote again according to the 4/4/25 Crain’s article above - and then postponed it again on 4/11.

  • 3/24/25 “Brooklyn Marine Terminal redevelopment faces opposition from residents,” Pix 11

  • 3/20/25 BMT Town Hall hosted by NYS Assemblymember Jo Anne Simon, the QnA recorded by John Leyva

City Club of New York BMT webinars

BMT webinar 3 “Brooklyn Marine Terminal: How Do We Build the Port of the Future? recording Two excerpts from that webinar:

  • "The foolishness is transparent, but the process is not," said Tom Fox, a presenters who founded the company New York Water Taxi in Red Hook and had proposed a plan for Atlantic Basin in response to the EDC’s 2007 RFP.

  • Summing up, the City Club ED Layla Law-Gisiko said "the discouragement you may feel at times is by design"

BMT webinar 2, “Can We Pull Off a Climate Resilient Brooklyn Marine Terminal?” recording. This was about resiliency broadly speaking, meaning about more than just resiliency as flood protection.

BMT webinar 1, “Planning for the Waterfront Future of NYC or Missing the Boat?” recording. This compared the EDC’s community engagement process and planning principles to best practices. The EDC failed on every measure.

City Club of New York’s 11-page statement says what’s wrong with the EDC’s approach, affirms maritime uses and says no to housing here.

Maritime Survey

Want to know more about maritime due to the BMT process? Take the survey created by PortSide and the Maritime Association of the Port of NY/NJ (MAPONY) to tell us what you want to learn about and how you want to learn it (webinar, social media, in-person meetings, port tours, etc) Go to https://bit.ly/SurveyToLearnBMTmaritime

Other references

BMT background

WXY Studio is the company the EDC hired to do the community engagement work. The EDC and WXY created a Task Force and Advisory Groups.

5/14/24 There was a morning press event in the Red Hook Container Terminal with the Mayor, Governor, President/CEO of the NYC EDC, Deputy Mayor Maria Torres-Springer, and Port Authority leaders. We were there. The City will take over Port Authority property in Brooklyn, swapping it for City property on Staten Island at the Howland Hook containerport, and the City will provide up to $2 billion in projected tax revenue from commercial buildings to support replacement of the Port Authority Bus Terminal in Midtown as per NYS press release here. The NYC EDC is announced as new manager/planner of this stretch of Brooklyn waterfront running south from Brooklyn Bridge Park, from Pier 7 at Atlantic Avenue through Atlantic Basin almost to Valentino Park, to Wolcott Street in Red Hook. As of 6/11/24, the Port Authority handed over management of the land to the NYC EDC

EDC should fulfill attainable past promises to show they’re sincere about community benefits now

The EDC should fulfill past promises such as fixing the shorepower in the Brooklyn Cruise Terminal and providing sufficient space for a full-sized PortSide NewYork. The exact space the EDC promised PortSide, as a community give-back to Red Hook and an amenity to the working waterfront is no longer available, so see our 2024 proposal for differently shaped “PortSide campus” here. People love PortSide! Read the 47 support letters we got in that many hours when we asked for support for a grant application in early 2024 here.

Speed of the process; use of a NYS process that doesn’t give community and City Council as much influence.

During the August Zoom webinar, they said that they hope to finish the community engagement process by early next year. That has now been extended 3 months to March 2025). It is that fast because they are using a NYS General Project Plan (GPP) process NOT the NYC process for rezoning, a Uniform Land Use Review Procedure (ULURP). As this is becoming NYC property, we think the ULURP rezoning process should be used. The community should demand a ULURP process as it allows for more community input. Scroll down for more about ULURP.

Does the Task Force have a written agreement with the EDC?

The newsletter of the Task Force Chair Congressman Dan Goldman of Friday 8/16/2024 said “That means ensuring that the community is in the driver’s seat of this planning process, from conception to execution.” Is there an MOU that guarantees such community power? We sent them an email on June 4, 2024 and have not received an answer. Former Councilman Carlos Menchaca established and MOU with the EDC (see here) as part of redeveloping the SBMT facility that is now slated to become an offshore wind facility.

5/24/24 Congressmember Dan Goldman, Council Member Aviles, and Senator Gounardes jointly released an Op-Ed about the land swap here. Note that is says that the Task Force that they are heading will have “ultimate approval authority.”  We have sent questions to Goldman’s office about how this will work. More as we know it.

Below are a series of updates building on the original post. We will restructure this soon.

About the consultant selected to do the master plan

The EDC has picked a team that goes back to their work in Red Hook in the early 2000s. The EDC selected Buro Happold to do the BMT Master Plan. Kate Ascher leads Buro Happold’s Cities Group. She was an EVP at the EDC in the early 2000s until early May 2007.   She was the EDC the lead on the Piers 6-12 study, the EDC’s plans that opened BCT, and the Piers 7-12 study.  All of those are covered at https://portsidenewyork.org/edc-plans

Those plans were all about making the waterfront and Red Hook as a whole a tourist destination and adding a lot of housing. The EDC made promises about BCT jobs and boost to retail businesses which were never fulfilled, and the EDC made no real effort to fulfill them either, which is the key part. 

In a 2005 article, Kate Ascher of the EDC said a ULURP would be used when transferring this Port Authority property to the City. So why is a GPP being used now?  Also, BCT never had as many cruise ships as described in that article and the EDC did no work to bring BCT users to Red Hook retail as the EDC discussed/promised at the time. 

The following excerpts are from https://www.brooklynpaper.com/piering-into-the-future-of-red-hook/

“There is no reason why [Red Hook] cannot be a place where people go on weekends to walk around and shop in a diverse environment,” Kate Ascher, the executive vice president of infrastructure at the New York City Economic Development Corporation, said at a Community Board 6 presentation Tuesday evening.”

“We envision a series of waterfront destinations: The East River Waterfront Park, Brooklyn Bridge Park, Governor’s Island and the Red Hook piers,” said Ascher.”

“The plan still calls for piers 7, 8, 9a and 9b to remain available for industrial shipping while the surrounding land would be available for the tourist-friendly makeover. Ascher said the area’s low-rise Civil War-era commercial strip could be converted to a mixed-use space with a maritime museum, a public school, a cafe or a brew-pub run by a relocated Brooklyn Brewery.”

The narrow streetscape would be gussied up with historic plaques and the streets repaved and widened.”

The following is from https://www.brooklynpaper.com/red-hooks-going-on-cruise-control/

“Kate Ascher, executive director of the EDC, who is overseeing the Red Hook terminal project, joked at the January community board meeting that the city should consider building a row of column-like palm trees that would guide crew members to Van Brunt Street, “

Kate Ascher’s joke palm trees and the rest of the article shows that the EDC was talking about, promising by implication, that BCT would benefit Red Hook retail; but the EDC never did anything to further that.

The following is from https://www.brownstoner.com/development/fairway-plus-th/

“According to Kate Ascher, the executive vice president of infrastructure at the New York City Economic Development Corporation, the Atlantic Basin, the body of water between Pier 11 and Pier 12 would be the sweet spot for the project’s development and the narrow commercial streets leading to those piers would be the village green.”

12/3/2024 update:

Councilmember Alexa Aviles and Assemblymember Marcela Mitaynes. hosted a townhall about the Brooklyn Marine Terminal planning process at Red Hook’s Miccio Center on December 3rd, 2024. The purpose was to share what information they had about the process and to answer what questions they could and to encourage the community to make their feelings loudly known to the EDC.

11/8/2024 update - edited to delete BMT meetings now past

As of 10/31/24 EDC weekly BMT update email, the “Vision Plan timeline has been extended to March 2025, doubling the engagement timeline. This “will include additional public workshops,” according to the Red Hook Business Alliance (RHBA).

10/10/24 update

Catching up with the EDC’s public workshops.

1st public workshop Saturday, 9/28/24, 11am-2pm, at the Miccio Center, 110 West 9th Street, in Red Hook. Please share our flyer below.

Saturday, 9/28/24, 11am-2pm at the Miccio Center. Over 200 people attended this event. We shot 4 Facebook live videos. They are mostly observational with light commentary by our ED Carolina Salguero who also interviewed several community members and several electeds: Andrew Gounardes, Marcela Mitaynes, Alexa Aviles, Jo Anne Simon.

  1. https://www.facebook.com/1792892409/videos/1096432775231911/

  2. https://www.facebook.com/1792892409/videos/544359871440061/

  3. https://www.facebook.com/1792892409/videos/378937485286889/

  4. https://www.facebook.com/1792892409/videos/569317128853672/

Monday, 10/7/24, 6-8pm, the EDC repeated the content, on community request. The ILA did not seem to be at this workshop since they were in a meeting after their recent strike.

  1. https://www.facebook.com/portsidenewyork/videos/1178721586538333

We have other photos and videos from both session we will share via DropBox at some point.

9/25/24 we emailed the federal DOT Mega Grants program to ask how the $164MM awarded to BMT would be spent. We copied John Blasco of Congressman Dan Goldman’s office. No answer from Blasco, but the DOT answered on 10/4/24: “On September 20, the Department of Transportation notified Congress of its intention for FY 2025 - FY 2026 Mega grant awards, beginning a 30-day Congressional notification period. The Department is not able to provide public comment on potential awards during the Congressional notification periods. After the Congressional notification periods have closed, the Department will publicly announce awards, contact successful applicants, and initiate obligation of funds for the awarded projects,” from MPDGrants MPDGrants@dot.gov

Update of 9/23/24

Last night John Leyva, a resident of Tiffany Place and community organizer and the voice behind these BMT-inspired social media accounts (Instagram and website), sent us the link to the EDC’s summary of the QnA from the August Zoom webinar. This summary does NOT provide the info many have requested which was literally a copy of what was posted. What the edit does:

  • It hides how many times a topic was brought up, so the popularity of concerns and desires is erased. (FYI, more than one person told us they brought up PortSide or Mary Whalen, but PortSide appears just 1x in this summary.)

  • It hides the exact phrasing of what was submitted. This erases passion, tone, and point of view.

  • This hides the contributor name, which the EDC justifies at the top of the summary saying “Questions are anonymous for privacy reasons.”

    • This claim of privacy feels inauthentic because at in-person meetings there is no “privacy” as in anonymity and the EDC is promising “deep community engagement” which requires transparency, not hiding the participants and input from the at-least 430 people the EDC says attended the Zoom.

    • People were also submitting suggestions not just questions. It is noteworthy that, on the webinar, EDC and WXY only asked for questions, never saying something like “put your suggestions, concerns and questions in the QnA.” Questions-only implies that all answers are with those in control, that the community has no answers. This was reminiscent of the kick-off meeting of the EDC’s Piers 6-12 study where they announced that the community could only ask questions during public meetings about the study, eg no comments. That statement was the trigger for PortSide’s founder and ED Carolina Salguero, working with documentary filmmaker Allison Prete, to create the website Waterfront Matters that recorded and transcribed all Piers 6-12 study public meetings and that provided a means for people to submit comments to the website. The website became a project of Brooklyn Community Board 6 (CB6), working with Craig Hammerman, the CB6 District Manager at the time. The website Waterfront Matters is archived here.

On Zoom on Monday, 8/12/24, 6.30pm, the NYC EDC hosted it’s first public info session, a webinar.

  • The Zoom recording is here.

  • Their PowerPoint presentation is here.

  • For info about the EDC’s extensive prior planning efforts for this area, see a PortSide webpage here.

Concerns about their community engagement

They are promising “deep community engagement,” but limited that on the 8/12/24, Zoom webinar:

  1. attendees could not see the other attendees

  2. chat was disabled

  3. questions/comments from attendees did not automatically appear in the QnA so attendees could not get a sense of who other attendees were or see their concerns.

  4. The EDC was cherrypicking what questions/comments to make public, because several people got in touch with us and said that what they said was not addressed. We heard that other groups conferred and had the same experience, what they posted was not shared by the EDC.

  5. EDC and WXY did not say our name PortSide of the name of our ship MARY WHALEN even though multiple people brought us up in the QnA. For those new to the PortSide story, the EDC promised PortSide a permanent home, where we are now, from 2008 into 2011 to create a maritime center with much more space a spot for our flagship MARY A. WHALEN. They never delivered on that, and we got back here in 2015 with just space for the ship. More here.

Items 1-3 above allow people to build alliances, know which constituencies were represented, and “feel the room.”

Items 4-5 above suppress community voices.

After the Zoom, maritime educator and mariner Maggie Flanagan emailed us what she posted in the QnA. Nothing like her first question was answered, and we don’t find anything like it in the edited QnA for the webinar that the EDC later shared. Questions from Maggie Flanagan:

Why is housing being considered in a site that’s a severe flood zone and zoned for industry?  Don’t you foresee conflicts from what will probably include high-end apartments next to big industry infrastructure?  Environmental justice means reducing impacts on neighborhoods, why add more residences that will increase that severity?

In the taskforce, please include a representative of small tour boat operators and a representative of historic ships?  Both have recently been active on this site, and should be part of any vote about the site's future. 

Recently, EDC ended leases with small maritime businesses in Atlantic Basin to switch the space to building the NYC ferry facility on this site.  Basically, small maritime businesses were kicked out to make it easier for the city run ferry.  Will the project restore needed protected berthing space for small businesses – those small maritime operators?  They also employ New Yorkers for local economic benefits.

Can a rep from NYC Planning be included in the project team ASAP?  Seems zoning changes will be needed, and it takes a lot of explaining for the public to understand how to effectively participate in public comment and approval processes with changing zoning.

This site is both a zoned Significant Maritime Industrial Area and a listed Priority Marine Activity Zone.  Please ensure those designations become part of your presentations and included within the public feedback process?

When will WXY consult with proven maritime engineers (not necessarily but like McLaren or OCC) to check the visioning against the reality of marine freight operations?  So far, WXY projects seem to have focused on lighter uses like a fishing esplanade or a kayak dock. 

Will PortSide New York be able to maintain their home at this site?  PortSide is an awarded, valuable community resource and an innovator in maritime workforce development.  PortSide should not have to rely on what so far seems to be a manipulative voting process with an undetermined team.

The EDC is selecting the Task Force members; instead of allowing community people to get involved at will or apply as you do to get on the community board.

Tools to help the community respond and organize

In early 2024, PortSide was the community partner for a Pratt graduate class about participatory planning. They created a tool kit to help Red Hook. Get it here. Here’s how they describe it: “This toolkit is designed to support Red Hook community members and PortSide leadership in neighborhood organizing and planning processes. Informed by our own research and conversations with Red Hook community members, this toolkit opens with an assessment of the neighborhood’s needs and opportunities. It then offers a series of participatory engagement tools for both PortSide and broader Red Hook to use. These tools aim to generate local conversations about key neighborhood issues and to encourage participatory planning.”

Talk to neighbors, staff and owners at stores, post flyers, share this on social media. Our impression is that Red Hook is very active in private Facebook groups, with some people, retail businesses, and the Red Hook Business Alliance (RHBA) active on Instagram. We hear that the Columbia Waterfront District is active on Next Door? Do you agree? Where is your community active? Let us know by email so we can post or go there.

What’s the plan?

This is part of a City (Mayor and EDC) plan branded ‘Harbor of the Future.” There was a promise to modernize the containerport with $95MM for upgrading piers 7,8, and 10, adding an electrified gantry crane, investing NYS funds in a new cold storage warehouse so the imported produce is trucked around less, adding micromobility services (not defined as to what and how) and addressing last mile traffic by using the marine highway. (See our blogpost on that here.) FYI, the Port Authority condemned Piers 9A and 9B last September (trapping a vintage engine of ours out there), which is why the #9 is missing in the pier numbering sequence above. Non-port uses were discussed a lot with talk of “creating a vibrant, new, mixed-use neighborhood.”

How?

The planning process is not fully clear yet. A Task Force, headed by Congressman Dan Goldman was announced as the means of taking community input. What’s not clear is the timeline for the property changing hands from the State to the City, which effects whether or not the City ULURP process is used. ULURP plans are binding; Task Force discussions are not. ULURP allows for more community input. The State has a means to do the planning called a General Project Plan (GPP). If the master plan is done via a GPP, as they were with Atlantic Yards, there is no ULURP. If the new Master Plan is done while it is City property, we think a ULURP process is triggered.

Who? Political Jurisdictions

These are complicated! One NYS Assemblymember Charles Falls has the piers, and two others, Marcela Mitaynes and Jo Anne Simon have the land! Links below are to district maps.

Who? Residents and businesses

The federal census collects and shares detailed information on residents (age, income, ethnicity, race, etc.) and housing (rented, owned, owner-occupied, etc.) and business types. See the NYC Department of City Planning website here.

Councilmember Alexa Aviles (District/D 38) represents the Red Hook portion of the “land swap” area. The Columbia Waterfront has Shahana Hanif D39 as their Councilmember. During the last six months of 2023, Alexa’s office conducted a D38 land review process conferring with stakeholders. PortSide was one of the stakeholder groups. The result of that process is here and has a data snapshot of D38 (but remember that all of D38 is way bigger than Red Hook) and explanations of AMI (Area Median Income). The page is a good crash course or starting point to learn about demographics.

Historic resources, archeological assessment of the site as of 2006

An assessment (under CEQR # 06SBS009K Brooklyn) was done in 2006 as part of the EDC’s prior Piers 7-12 study. We have downloaded the report in case that link goes dead. Get it here.

“City Environmental Quality Review, or CEQR, is the process by which agencies of the City of New York review proposed discretionary actions to identify the effects those actions may have on the environment. More here. The NYS equivalent, the State Environmental Quality Review Act is SEQRA.

Media coverage right after the press conference

Most media reporting regurgitated the press event and press release with little or no analysis. The exceptions or media where we appear are listed below. Get the full packet (as of 5/16/24) of official statements, media reports and Nadler criticism here.

5/24/24 Congressmember Dan Goldman, Council Member Aviles, and Senator Gounardes jointly released an Op-Ed about the land swap here. Note that is says that the Task Force that they are heading will have “ultimate approval authority.”  We have sent questions to Goldman’s office about how this will work. More as we know it.